Avodah Zarah 58
Share this shiur:
Masechet Avodah Zarah
Masechet Avodah Zarah is sponsored by the Talmud class of Congregation Beth Jacob in Redwood City, CA, in honor of the Hadran staff who make learning possible.
Want to dedicate learning? Get started here:
Masechet Avodah Zarah
Masechet Avodah Zarah is sponsored by the Talmud class of Congregation Beth Jacob in Redwood City, CA, in honor of the Hadran staff who make learning possible.
Avodah Zarah 58
אִיקְּלַע רַב הוּנָא בְּרֵיהּ דְּרַב נַחְמָן לְמָחוֹזָא, אֲמַר לֵיהּ רָבָא לְרַב אֶלְיָקִים שַׁמָּעֵיהּ: טְרוֹק גַּלֵּי, דְּלָא נֵיתוֹ אִינָשֵׁי דְּנִיטְרֹיד.
Rav Huna, son of Rav Naḥman, happened to come to Meḥoza. Rava said to his attendant, Rav Elyakim: Close, close the gates, so that people who might disturb us should not come, and we may focus on clarifying the matter.
עָל לְגַבֵּיהּ, אֲמַר לֵיהּ: כִּי הַאי גַּוְונָא מַאי? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: אָסוּר אֲפִילּוּ בַּהֲנָאָה. וְהָא מָר הוּא דְּאָמַר: שִׁיכְשֵׁךְ אֵין עוֹשֶׂה יֵין נֶסֶךְ! אֵימַר דַּאֲמַרִי אֲנָא – לְבַר מִדְּמֵיהּ דְּהָהוּא חַמְרָא, דְּמֵי דְּהָהוּא חַמְרָא מִי אֲמַרִי?
Rav Huna, son of Rav Naḥman, entered into Rava’s presence. Rav Huna, son of Rav Naḥman, said to Rava: What is the halakha in a case like this where a gentile stirred the wine without intending to offer it as an idolatrous libation? Rava said to Rav Huna, son of Rav Naḥman: It is prohibited even to derive benefit from it. Rav Huna, son of Rav Naḥman, asked him: But wasn’t it you, Master, who said: If a gentile stirs the wine, he does not thereby render it wine used for a libation, as Rava permitted the sale of the wine in the barrel to gentiles? Rava answered: Say that I said that it is permitted to sell the wine that was in the barrel and benefit from all the proceeds except for the monetary value of that prohibited wine that was poured into the barrel of wine. Did I say that it is permitted to derive benefit from the monetary value of that prohibited wine?
אָמַר רָבָא: כִּי אֲתַאי לְפוּמְבְּדִיתָא, אַקְּפַן נַחְמָנִי שְׁמַעְתָּתָא וּמַתְנְיָתָא דַּאֲסִיר.
Rava said: When I arrived at Pumbedita, Naḥmani, i.e., Abaye, surrounded us with amoraic traditions and with tannaitic sources cited in a baraita that indicate that in the case of wine that was stirred by a gentile it is prohibited even to derive benefit from the wine.
שְׁמַעְתָּתָא: דְּהָהוּא עוֹבָדָא דַּהֲוָה בִּנְהַרְדְּעָא, וַאֲסַר שְׁמוּאֵל, בִּטְבֶרְיָא וַאֲסַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן, וַאֲמַרִי לֵיהּ: לְפִי שֶׁאֵינָן בְּנֵי תוֹרָה, וַאֲמַר לִי: טְבֶרְיָא וּנְהַרְדְּעָא אֵינָן בְּנֵי תוֹרָה, דְּמָחוֹזָא בְּנֵי תוֹרָה?!
Rava explains: Abaye cited amoraic traditions, as there was a certain incident in Neharde’a in which a gentile stirred the wine, and Shmuel deemed the wine prohibited, and there was a similar incident in Tiberias and Rabbi Yoḥanan deemed the wine prohibited. Rava recounts his reply: And I said to Abaye: Shmuel and Rabbi Yoḥanan deemed the wine prohibited only because the people in those towns were not people well-versed in Torah, and it was necessary to distance them from transgression. And Abaye said to me: Are you saying that the people of Tiberias and Neharde’a are not people well-versed in Torah whereas the people of Meḥoza are people well-versed in Torah? This is obviously not the case, and therefore you should not have permitted the sale of the wine in Meḥoza, even according to your reasoning.
מַתְנְיָתָא: דַּאֲגַרְדְּמִים גּוֹי שֶׁקָּדַח בְּמֵינֶקֶת וְהֶעֱלָה, אוֹ שֶׁטָּעַם מִן הַכּוֹס וְהֶחְזִירוֹ לְחָבִית — זֶה הָיָה מַעֲשֶׂה וַאֲסָרוּהוּ. מַאי לָאו בַּהֲנָאָה? לֹא, בִּשְׁתִיָּיה.
Abaye cited a baraita that teaches as follows: In the case of a gentile market inspector [de’agardamim] who was in charge of measures and prices in the marketplace, who drilled a hole in a barrel with a tube and drew wine from the barrel through the tube in order to taste it, or who tasted the wine from the cup that was poured for him and then returned the residue to the barrel, what is the halakha? This was an incident that occurred, and the Sages prohibited the wine. Abaye said: What does this mean? Is the baraita not prohibiting one from deriving benefit from the wine? Rava replied: No, it is prohibiting one only from drinking it.
אִי הָכִי, לִיתְנֵי ״יִמָּכֵר״, כִּדְקָתָנֵי סֵיפָא: חָרָם גּוֹי שֶׁהוֹשִׁיט יָדוֹ לֶחָבִית, וּכְסָבוּר שֶׁל שֶׁמֶן הִיא וְנִמְצֵאת שֶׁל יַיִן — זֶה הָיָה מַעֲשֶׂה, וְאָמְרוּ: ״יִמָּכֵר״. תְּיוּבְתָּא דְרָבָא, תְּיוּבְתָּא.
Abaye said: If so, let the baraita teach that the wine may be sold, as the latter clause of the baraita teaches: In the case of a gentile confiscator who extended his hand into a barrel of wine, thinking it was a barrel of oil, and it was found to be a barrel of wine, what is the halakha? This was an incident that occurred, and the Sages said: It may be sold, as the gentile had no intention of touching wine. The Gemara concludes: The refutation of the opinion of Rava is indeed a conclusive refutation.
רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן בֶּן אַרְזָא וְרַבִּי יוֹסֵי בֶּן נְהוֹרַאי הֲווֹ יָתְבִי וְקָא שָׁתוּ חַמְרָא, אֲתָא הָהוּא גַּבְרָא, אֲמַרוּ לֵיהּ: תָּא אַשְׁקֵינַן. לְבָתַר דִּרְמָא לְכָסָא אִיגַּלַּאי מִילְּתָא דְּגוֹי הוּא. חַד אָסַר אֲפִילּוּ בַּהֲנָאָה, וְחַד שָׁרֵי אֲפִילּוּ בִּשְׁתִיָּיה. אָמַר רַבִּי יְהוֹשֻׁעַ בֶּן לֵוִי: מַאן דְּאָסַר שַׁפִּיר אָסַר, וּמַאן דְּשָׁרֵי שַׁפִּיר שָׁרֵי. מַאן דְּאָסַר,
§ The Gemara relates: Rabbi Yoḥanan ben Arza and Rabbi Yosei ben Nehorai were sitting and drinking wine. A certain man came and they said to him: Come, serve us drinks. After he poured the wine into the cup, it was revealed that the person was a gentile. One of those Sages prohibited one from even deriving benefit from the wine, and one of them permitted the wine even for drinking. Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi said: The one who prohibited the wine properly deemed it prohibited, and the one who permitted it properly deemed it permitted, as both opinions are viable. The one who prohibited the wine holds that
מֵימָר אָמַר: סָלְקָא דַּעְתֵּיהּ דְּרַבָּנַן כִּי הָנֵי שִׁיכְרָא קָא שָׁתוּ? אֶלָּא וַדַּאי הַאי חַמְרָא הוּא, וְנַסְּכֵיהּ. מַאן דְּשָׁרֵי שַׁפִּיר שְׁרֵי, מֵימָר אָמַר: סָלְקָא דַעְתָּךְ דְּרַבָּנַן כִּי הָנֵי חַמְרָא קָא שָׁתוּ, וְאָמְרוּ לִיה לְדִידִי ״תָּא אַשְׁקֵינַן״? אֶלָּא וַדַּאי שִׁיכְרָא הוּא (קָא שָׁתוּ), וְלָא נַסְּכֵיהּ.
the gentile says to himself: Can it enter your mind that great Sages like these are drinking liquor [shikhra]? Rather, this is certainly wine that they are drinking, and therefore the gentile may have poured it as a libation. Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi continues to explain that the one who deemed the wine permitted properly deemed it permitted, as he holds that the gentile says to himself: Can it enter your mind that great Rabbis like these are drinking wine and they say to me, a gentile: Come, serve us drinks? Rather, it is certainly liquor that they are drinking, and therefore he did not pour it as a libation.
וְהָא קָא חָזֵי! בְּלֵילְיָא. וְהָא קָא מֹרַח לֵיהּ! בְּחַדְתָּא.
The Gemara asks: But doesn’t the gentile see whether it is wine or liquor? The Gemara answers: The incident occurred at night. The Gemara asks: But doesn’t the gentile smell it and recognize that it is wine? The Gemara answers: This incident occurred with new wine, whose smell does not diffuse.
וְהָא קָא נָגַע בֵּיהּ בְּנַטְלָא, וְהָוֵה לֵיהּ מַגַּע גּוֹי שֶׁלֹּא בְּכַוָּונָה וְאָסוּר! לָא צְרִיכָא, דְּקָא מוֹרֵיק אוֹרוֹקֵי, וְהָוֵה לֵיהּ כֹּחוֹ שֶׁלֹּא בְּכַוָּונָה, וְכֹל כֹּחוֹ שֶׁלֹּא בְּכַוָּונָה לָא גְּזַרוּ בֵּיהּ רַבָּנַן.
The Gemara asks: But didn’t the gentile touch the wine when he drew the wine in the pail, and therefore it is a case of a gentile’s unintentional touch, which renders the wine prohibited? The Gemara replies: No, it was necessary to teach this halakha because the gentile was pouring from one vessel to another without touching the wine, and therefore it was a case where the wine was poured by the force of the gentile’s action, without any intention of offering it as a libation. And in any case where wine is poured by force of a gentile’s action, without any intention of offering it as a libation, the Sages did not issue a decree prohibiting the wine, and it is permitted to drink it.
בְּעָא מִינֵּיהּ רַבִּי אַסִּי מֵרַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: יַיִן שֶׁמְּסָכוֹ גּוֹי, מַהוּ? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: וְאֵימָא ״מְזָגוֹ״! אֲמַר לֵיהּ: אֲנָא כְּדִכְתִיב קָאָמֵינָא, ״טָבְחָה טִבְחָהּ מָסְכָה יֵינָהּ״. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: לְשׁוֹן תּוֹרָה לְעַצְמָהּ, לְשׁוֹן חֲכָמִים לְעַצְמוֹ.
§ Rabbi Asi asked Rabbi Yoḥanan: With regard to wine that a gentile mixed [mesakho] with water, what is the halakha? Rabbi Yoḥanan said to Rabbi Asi: And why not say: Wine that a gentile diluted [mezago] with water, as that is the term that is usually used? Rabbi Asi said to Rabbi Yoḥanan: I say wine that was mixed, as it is written: “She has prepared her meat, she has mixed [maskha] her wine” (Proverbs 9:2). Rabbi Yoḥanan said to Rabbi Asi: While it is true that this is the language of the Bible, the language of the Torah is a language in itself, and the language of the Sages is a language in itself, i.e., the terminology of the Bible is not the same as the terminology employed by the Sages.
מַאי? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: אָסוּר, מִשּׁוּם ״לָךְ לָךְ, אָמְרִין נְזִירָא; סְחוֹר סְחוֹר, לְכַרְמָא לָא תִּקְרַב״.
Rabbi Asi repeated his question: What is the halakha? Rabbi Yoḥanan said to Rabbi Asi: Although the gentile did not touch the wine when diluting it, it is prohibited by rabbinic decree due to the maxim: Go, go, we say to a nazirite, who is prohibited from drinking wine and eating grapes; go around and go around, but do not come near to the vineyard. Although a nazirite is prohibited only from eating produce of the vine, he is warned not even to come into the proximity of a vineyard as a protective measure to ensure that he will not transgress this prohibition. So too, in many cases, the Sages decreed certain items and actions to be prohibited because they understood that if people would use them, they would eventually transgress Torah prohibitions.
רַבִּי יִרְמְיָה אִיקְּלַע לְסִבְּתָא, חֲזָא חַמְרָא דְּמָזְגִי גּוֹיִם וְאִישְׁתִּי יִשְׂרָאֵל מִינֵּיהּ, וַאֲסַר לְהוּ מִשּׁוּם ״לָךְ לָךְ, אָמְרִין נְזִירָא; סְחוֹר סְחוֹר, לְכַרְמָא לָא תִּקְרַב״. אִתְּמַר נָמֵי: אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן, וְאָמְרִי לַהּ אָמַר רַבִּי אַסִּי אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: יַיִן שֶׁמְּזָגוֹ גּוֹי אָסוּר, מִשּׁוּם ״לָךְ לָךְ, אָמְרִין נְזִירָא; סְחוֹר סְחוֹר, לְכַרְמָא לָא תִּקְרַב״.
Rabbi Yirmeya happened to come to Savta. He saw wine that a gentile diluted with water and then a Jew drank from it, and Rabbi Yirmeya then deemed the wine prohibited to them, due to the maxim: Go, go, we say to a nazirite, go around and go around, but do not come near to the vineyard. It was also stated: Rabbi Yoḥanan says, and some say that Rabbi Asi says that Rabbi Yoḥanan says: Wine that a gentile diluted is prohibited, due to the maxim Go, go, we say to a nazirite, go around and go around, but do not come near to the vineyard.
רֵישׁ לָקִישׁ אִיקְּלַע לְבׇצְרָה, חֲזָא יִשְׂרָאֵל דְּקָאָכְלִי פֵּירֵי דְּלָא מְעַשְּׂרִי, וַאֲסַר לְהוּ. חֲזָא מַיָּא דְּסָגְדִי לְהוּ גּוֹיִם וְשָׁתוּ יִשְׂרָאֵל, וַאֲסַר לְהוּ.
§ Reish Lakish happened to come to Bozrah, a town east of the Jordan. He saw Jews who were eating untithed produce and he deemed the produce prohibited to them. He also saw water to which gentiles bowed down and yet Jews drank the water, and he deemed the water prohibited to them.
אֲתָא לְקַמֵּיהּ דְּרַבִּי יוֹחָנָן, אֲמַר לֵיהּ: אַדְּמִקְטוֹרָךְ עֲלָךְ זִיל הֲדַר בֶּצֶר, לָאו הַיְינוּ בׇּצְרָה, וּמַיִם שֶׁל רַבִּים אֵין נֶאֱסָרִין.
Reish Lakish came before Rabbi Yoḥanan and told him about the incident. Rabbi Yoḥanan said to Reish Lakish: While your coat [addemiktorakh] is still on you, go and retract your rulings. This is because the town of Bezer which is mentioned among the cities of refuge (Deuteronomy 4:43) is not the same as Bozrah. Bozrah is not part of Eretz Yisrael, and one is not obligated to separate tithes from its produce. The water is also permitted as it is water that belongs to the public, and water that belongs to the public is not rendered prohibited.
רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן לְטַעְמֵיהּ,
The Gemara notes that Rabbi Yoḥanan conforms to his standard line of reasoning,
New to Talmud?
Check out our resources designed to help you navigate a page of Talmud – and study at the pace, level and style that fits you.
The Hadran Women’s Tapestry
Meet the diverse women learning Gemara at Hadran and hear their stories.
New York, United States
I started learning Daf Yomi in January 2020 after watching my grandfather, Mayer Penstein z”l, finish shas with the previous cycle. My grandfather made learning so much fun was so proud that his grandchildren wanted to join him. I was also inspired by Ilana Kurshan’s book, If All the Seas Were Ink. Two years in, I can say that it has enriched my life in so many ways.
New York, United States
I started learning at the start of this cycle, and quickly fell in love. It has become such an important part of my day, enriching every part of my life.
Toronto, Canada
I started last year after completing the Pesach Sugiyot class. Masechet Yoma might seem like a difficult set of topics, but for me made Yom Kippur and the Beit HaMikdash come alive. Liturgy I’d always had trouble connecting with took on new meaning as I gained a sense of real people moving through specific spaces in particular ways. It was the perfect introduction; I am so grateful for Hadran!
Minnesota, United States
In January 2020 on a Shabbaton to Baltimore I heard about the new cycle of Daf Yomi after the siyum celebration in NYC stadium. I started to read “ a daily dose of Talmud “ and really enjoyed it . It led me to google “ do Orthodox women study Talmud? “ and found HADRAN! Since then I listen to the podcast every morning, participate in classes and siyum. I love to learn, this is amazing! Thank you
Atlanta, United States
Attending the Siyyum in Jerusalem 26 months ago inspired me to become part of this community of learners. So many aspects of Jewish life have been illuminated by what we have learned in Seder Moed. My day is not complete without daf Yomi. I am so grateful to Rabbanit Michelle and the Hadran Community.
Newton, United States
Oceanside NY, United States
Michelle has been an inspiration for years, but I only really started this cycle after the moving and uplifting siyum in Jerusalem. It’s been an wonderful to learn and relearn the tenets of our religion and to understand how the extraordinary efforts of a band of people to preserve Judaism after the fall of the beit hamikdash is still bearing fruits today. I’m proud to be part of the chain!
Raanana, Israel
Geri Goldstein got me started learning daf yomi when I was in Israel 2 years ago. It’s been a challenge and I’ve learned a lot though I’m sure I miss a lot. I quilt as I listen and I want to share what I’ve been working on.
Ottawa, Canada
My husband learns Daf, my son learns Daf, my son-in-law learns Daf.
When I read about Hadran’s Siyyum HaShas 2 years ago, I thought- I can learn Daf too!
I had learned Gemara in Hillel HS in NJ, & I remembered loving it.
Rabbanit Michelle & Hadran have opened my eyes & expanding my learning so much in the past few years. We can now discuss Gemara as a family.
This was a life saver during Covid
Brooklyn, NY, United States
I learned daf more off than on 40 years ago. At the beginning of the current cycle, I decided to commit to learning daf regularly. Having Rabanit Michelle available as a learning partner has been amazing. Sometimes I learn with Hadran, sometimes with my husband, and sometimes on my own. It’s been fun to be part of an extended learning community.
Honolulu, Hawaii, United States
I started learning Dec 2019 after reading “If all the Seas Were Ink”. I found
Daily daf sessions of Rabbanit Michelle in her house teaching, I then heard about the siyum and a new cycle starting wow I am in! Afternoon here in Sydney, my family and friends know this is my sacred time to hide away to live zoom and learn. Often it’s hard to absorb and relate then a gem shines touching my heart.
Dover Heights, Australia
In January 2020, my teaching partner at IDC suggested we do daf yomi. Thanks to her challenge, I started learning daily from Rabbanit Michelle. It’s a joy to be part of the Hadran community. (It’s also a tikkun: in 7th grade, my best friend and I tied for first place in a citywide gemara exam, but we weren’t invited to the celebration because girls weren’t supposed to be learning gemara).
Jerusalem, Israel
I started learning Jan 2020 when I heard the new cycle was starting. I had tried during the last cycle and didn’t make it past a few weeks. Learning online from old men didn’t speak to my soul and I knew Talmud had to be a soul journey for me. Enter Hadran! Talmud from Rabbanit Michelle Farber from a woman’s perspective, a mother’s perspective and a modern perspective. Motivated to continue!
Brentwood, California, United States
It has been a pleasure keeping pace with this wonderful and scholarly group of women.
Beit Shemesh, Israel
In July, 2012 I wrote for Tablet about the first all women’s siyum at Matan in Jerusalem, with 100 women. At the time, I thought, I would like to start with the next cycle – listening to a podcast at different times of day makes it possible. It is incredible that after 10 years, so many women are so engaged!
Pittsburgh, United States
After reading the book, “ If All The Seas Were Ink “ by Ileana Kurshan I started studying Talmud. I searched and studied with several teachers until I found Michelle Farber. I have been studying with her for two years. I look forward every day to learn from her.
Virginia, United States
Bronx, United States
I had tried to start after being inspired by the hadran siyum, but did not manage to stick to it. However, just before masechet taanit, our rav wrote a message to the shul WhatsApp encouraging people to start with masechet taanit, so I did! And this time, I’m hooked! I listen to the shiur every day , and am also trying to improve my skills.
Yad Binyamin, Israel
Minnesota, United States
Avodah Zarah 58
אִיקְּלַע רַב הוּנָא בְּרֵיהּ דְּרַב נַחְמָן לְמָחוֹזָא, אֲמַר לֵיהּ רָבָא לְרַב אֶלְיָקִים שַׁמָּעֵיהּ: טְרוֹק גַּלֵּי, דְּלָא נֵיתוֹ אִינָשֵׁי דְּנִיטְרֹיד.
Rav Huna, son of Rav Naḥman, happened to come to Meḥoza. Rava said to his attendant, Rav Elyakim: Close, close the gates, so that people who might disturb us should not come, and we may focus on clarifying the matter.
עָל לְגַבֵּיהּ, אֲמַר לֵיהּ: כִּי הַאי גַּוְונָא מַאי? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: אָסוּר אֲפִילּוּ בַּהֲנָאָה. וְהָא מָר הוּא דְּאָמַר: שִׁיכְשֵׁךְ אֵין עוֹשֶׂה יֵין נֶסֶךְ! אֵימַר דַּאֲמַרִי אֲנָא – לְבַר מִדְּמֵיהּ דְּהָהוּא חַמְרָא, דְּמֵי דְּהָהוּא חַמְרָא מִי אֲמַרִי?
Rav Huna, son of Rav Naḥman, entered into Rava’s presence. Rav Huna, son of Rav Naḥman, said to Rava: What is the halakha in a case like this where a gentile stirred the wine without intending to offer it as an idolatrous libation? Rava said to Rav Huna, son of Rav Naḥman: It is prohibited even to derive benefit from it. Rav Huna, son of Rav Naḥman, asked him: But wasn’t it you, Master, who said: If a gentile stirs the wine, he does not thereby render it wine used for a libation, as Rava permitted the sale of the wine in the barrel to gentiles? Rava answered: Say that I said that it is permitted to sell the wine that was in the barrel and benefit from all the proceeds except for the monetary value of that prohibited wine that was poured into the barrel of wine. Did I say that it is permitted to derive benefit from the monetary value of that prohibited wine?
אָמַר רָבָא: כִּי אֲתַאי לְפוּמְבְּדִיתָא, אַקְּפַן נַחְמָנִי שְׁמַעְתָּתָא וּמַתְנְיָתָא דַּאֲסִיר.
Rava said: When I arrived at Pumbedita, Naḥmani, i.e., Abaye, surrounded us with amoraic traditions and with tannaitic sources cited in a baraita that indicate that in the case of wine that was stirred by a gentile it is prohibited even to derive benefit from the wine.
שְׁמַעְתָּתָא: דְּהָהוּא עוֹבָדָא דַּהֲוָה בִּנְהַרְדְּעָא, וַאֲסַר שְׁמוּאֵל, בִּטְבֶרְיָא וַאֲסַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן, וַאֲמַרִי לֵיהּ: לְפִי שֶׁאֵינָן בְּנֵי תוֹרָה, וַאֲמַר לִי: טְבֶרְיָא וּנְהַרְדְּעָא אֵינָן בְּנֵי תוֹרָה, דְּמָחוֹזָא בְּנֵי תוֹרָה?!
Rava explains: Abaye cited amoraic traditions, as there was a certain incident in Neharde’a in which a gentile stirred the wine, and Shmuel deemed the wine prohibited, and there was a similar incident in Tiberias and Rabbi Yoḥanan deemed the wine prohibited. Rava recounts his reply: And I said to Abaye: Shmuel and Rabbi Yoḥanan deemed the wine prohibited only because the people in those towns were not people well-versed in Torah, and it was necessary to distance them from transgression. And Abaye said to me: Are you saying that the people of Tiberias and Neharde’a are not people well-versed in Torah whereas the people of Meḥoza are people well-versed in Torah? This is obviously not the case, and therefore you should not have permitted the sale of the wine in Meḥoza, even according to your reasoning.
מַתְנְיָתָא: דַּאֲגַרְדְּמִים גּוֹי שֶׁקָּדַח בְּמֵינֶקֶת וְהֶעֱלָה, אוֹ שֶׁטָּעַם מִן הַכּוֹס וְהֶחְזִירוֹ לְחָבִית — זֶה הָיָה מַעֲשֶׂה וַאֲסָרוּהוּ. מַאי לָאו בַּהֲנָאָה? לֹא, בִּשְׁתִיָּיה.
Abaye cited a baraita that teaches as follows: In the case of a gentile market inspector [de’agardamim] who was in charge of measures and prices in the marketplace, who drilled a hole in a barrel with a tube and drew wine from the barrel through the tube in order to taste it, or who tasted the wine from the cup that was poured for him and then returned the residue to the barrel, what is the halakha? This was an incident that occurred, and the Sages prohibited the wine. Abaye said: What does this mean? Is the baraita not prohibiting one from deriving benefit from the wine? Rava replied: No, it is prohibiting one only from drinking it.
אִי הָכִי, לִיתְנֵי ״יִמָּכֵר״, כִּדְקָתָנֵי סֵיפָא: חָרָם גּוֹי שֶׁהוֹשִׁיט יָדוֹ לֶחָבִית, וּכְסָבוּר שֶׁל שֶׁמֶן הִיא וְנִמְצֵאת שֶׁל יַיִן — זֶה הָיָה מַעֲשֶׂה, וְאָמְרוּ: ״יִמָּכֵר״. תְּיוּבְתָּא דְרָבָא, תְּיוּבְתָּא.
Abaye said: If so, let the baraita teach that the wine may be sold, as the latter clause of the baraita teaches: In the case of a gentile confiscator who extended his hand into a barrel of wine, thinking it was a barrel of oil, and it was found to be a barrel of wine, what is the halakha? This was an incident that occurred, and the Sages said: It may be sold, as the gentile had no intention of touching wine. The Gemara concludes: The refutation of the opinion of Rava is indeed a conclusive refutation.
רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן בֶּן אַרְזָא וְרַבִּי יוֹסֵי בֶּן נְהוֹרַאי הֲווֹ יָתְבִי וְקָא שָׁתוּ חַמְרָא, אֲתָא הָהוּא גַּבְרָא, אֲמַרוּ לֵיהּ: תָּא אַשְׁקֵינַן. לְבָתַר דִּרְמָא לְכָסָא אִיגַּלַּאי מִילְּתָא דְּגוֹי הוּא. חַד אָסַר אֲפִילּוּ בַּהֲנָאָה, וְחַד שָׁרֵי אֲפִילּוּ בִּשְׁתִיָּיה. אָמַר רַבִּי יְהוֹשֻׁעַ בֶּן לֵוִי: מַאן דְּאָסַר שַׁפִּיר אָסַר, וּמַאן דְּשָׁרֵי שַׁפִּיר שָׁרֵי. מַאן דְּאָסַר,
§ The Gemara relates: Rabbi Yoḥanan ben Arza and Rabbi Yosei ben Nehorai were sitting and drinking wine. A certain man came and they said to him: Come, serve us drinks. After he poured the wine into the cup, it was revealed that the person was a gentile. One of those Sages prohibited one from even deriving benefit from the wine, and one of them permitted the wine even for drinking. Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi said: The one who prohibited the wine properly deemed it prohibited, and the one who permitted it properly deemed it permitted, as both opinions are viable. The one who prohibited the wine holds that
מֵימָר אָמַר: סָלְקָא דַּעְתֵּיהּ דְּרַבָּנַן כִּי הָנֵי שִׁיכְרָא קָא שָׁתוּ? אֶלָּא וַדַּאי הַאי חַמְרָא הוּא, וְנַסְּכֵיהּ. מַאן דְּשָׁרֵי שַׁפִּיר שְׁרֵי, מֵימָר אָמַר: סָלְקָא דַעְתָּךְ דְּרַבָּנַן כִּי הָנֵי חַמְרָא קָא שָׁתוּ, וְאָמְרוּ לִיה לְדִידִי ״תָּא אַשְׁקֵינַן״? אֶלָּא וַדַּאי שִׁיכְרָא הוּא (קָא שָׁתוּ), וְלָא נַסְּכֵיהּ.
the gentile says to himself: Can it enter your mind that great Sages like these are drinking liquor [shikhra]? Rather, this is certainly wine that they are drinking, and therefore the gentile may have poured it as a libation. Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi continues to explain that the one who deemed the wine permitted properly deemed it permitted, as he holds that the gentile says to himself: Can it enter your mind that great Rabbis like these are drinking wine and they say to me, a gentile: Come, serve us drinks? Rather, it is certainly liquor that they are drinking, and therefore he did not pour it as a libation.
וְהָא קָא חָזֵי! בְּלֵילְיָא. וְהָא קָא מֹרַח לֵיהּ! בְּחַדְתָּא.
The Gemara asks: But doesn’t the gentile see whether it is wine or liquor? The Gemara answers: The incident occurred at night. The Gemara asks: But doesn’t the gentile smell it and recognize that it is wine? The Gemara answers: This incident occurred with new wine, whose smell does not diffuse.
וְהָא קָא נָגַע בֵּיהּ בְּנַטְלָא, וְהָוֵה לֵיהּ מַגַּע גּוֹי שֶׁלֹּא בְּכַוָּונָה וְאָסוּר! לָא צְרִיכָא, דְּקָא מוֹרֵיק אוֹרוֹקֵי, וְהָוֵה לֵיהּ כֹּחוֹ שֶׁלֹּא בְּכַוָּונָה, וְכֹל כֹּחוֹ שֶׁלֹּא בְּכַוָּונָה לָא גְּזַרוּ בֵּיהּ רַבָּנַן.
The Gemara asks: But didn’t the gentile touch the wine when he drew the wine in the pail, and therefore it is a case of a gentile’s unintentional touch, which renders the wine prohibited? The Gemara replies: No, it was necessary to teach this halakha because the gentile was pouring from one vessel to another without touching the wine, and therefore it was a case where the wine was poured by the force of the gentile’s action, without any intention of offering it as a libation. And in any case where wine is poured by force of a gentile’s action, without any intention of offering it as a libation, the Sages did not issue a decree prohibiting the wine, and it is permitted to drink it.
בְּעָא מִינֵּיהּ רַבִּי אַסִּי מֵרַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: יַיִן שֶׁמְּסָכוֹ גּוֹי, מַהוּ? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: וְאֵימָא ״מְזָגוֹ״! אֲמַר לֵיהּ: אֲנָא כְּדִכְתִיב קָאָמֵינָא, ״טָבְחָה טִבְחָהּ מָסְכָה יֵינָהּ״. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: לְשׁוֹן תּוֹרָה לְעַצְמָהּ, לְשׁוֹן חֲכָמִים לְעַצְמוֹ.
§ Rabbi Asi asked Rabbi Yoḥanan: With regard to wine that a gentile mixed [mesakho] with water, what is the halakha? Rabbi Yoḥanan said to Rabbi Asi: And why not say: Wine that a gentile diluted [mezago] with water, as that is the term that is usually used? Rabbi Asi said to Rabbi Yoḥanan: I say wine that was mixed, as it is written: “She has prepared her meat, she has mixed [maskha] her wine” (Proverbs 9:2). Rabbi Yoḥanan said to Rabbi Asi: While it is true that this is the language of the Bible, the language of the Torah is a language in itself, and the language of the Sages is a language in itself, i.e., the terminology of the Bible is not the same as the terminology employed by the Sages.
מַאי? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: אָסוּר, מִשּׁוּם ״לָךְ לָךְ, אָמְרִין נְזִירָא; סְחוֹר סְחוֹר, לְכַרְמָא לָא תִּקְרַב״.
Rabbi Asi repeated his question: What is the halakha? Rabbi Yoḥanan said to Rabbi Asi: Although the gentile did not touch the wine when diluting it, it is prohibited by rabbinic decree due to the maxim: Go, go, we say to a nazirite, who is prohibited from drinking wine and eating grapes; go around and go around, but do not come near to the vineyard. Although a nazirite is prohibited only from eating produce of the vine, he is warned not even to come into the proximity of a vineyard as a protective measure to ensure that he will not transgress this prohibition. So too, in many cases, the Sages decreed certain items and actions to be prohibited because they understood that if people would use them, they would eventually transgress Torah prohibitions.
רַבִּי יִרְמְיָה אִיקְּלַע לְסִבְּתָא, חֲזָא חַמְרָא דְּמָזְגִי גּוֹיִם וְאִישְׁתִּי יִשְׂרָאֵל מִינֵּיהּ, וַאֲסַר לְהוּ מִשּׁוּם ״לָךְ לָךְ, אָמְרִין נְזִירָא; סְחוֹר סְחוֹר, לְכַרְמָא לָא תִּקְרַב״. אִתְּמַר נָמֵי: אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן, וְאָמְרִי לַהּ אָמַר רַבִּי אַסִּי אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: יַיִן שֶׁמְּזָגוֹ גּוֹי אָסוּר, מִשּׁוּם ״לָךְ לָךְ, אָמְרִין נְזִירָא; סְחוֹר סְחוֹר, לְכַרְמָא לָא תִּקְרַב״.
Rabbi Yirmeya happened to come to Savta. He saw wine that a gentile diluted with water and then a Jew drank from it, and Rabbi Yirmeya then deemed the wine prohibited to them, due to the maxim: Go, go, we say to a nazirite, go around and go around, but do not come near to the vineyard. It was also stated: Rabbi Yoḥanan says, and some say that Rabbi Asi says that Rabbi Yoḥanan says: Wine that a gentile diluted is prohibited, due to the maxim Go, go, we say to a nazirite, go around and go around, but do not come near to the vineyard.
רֵישׁ לָקִישׁ אִיקְּלַע לְבׇצְרָה, חֲזָא יִשְׂרָאֵל דְּקָאָכְלִי פֵּירֵי דְּלָא מְעַשְּׂרִי, וַאֲסַר לְהוּ. חֲזָא מַיָּא דְּסָגְדִי לְהוּ גּוֹיִם וְשָׁתוּ יִשְׂרָאֵל, וַאֲסַר לְהוּ.
§ Reish Lakish happened to come to Bozrah, a town east of the Jordan. He saw Jews who were eating untithed produce and he deemed the produce prohibited to them. He also saw water to which gentiles bowed down and yet Jews drank the water, and he deemed the water prohibited to them.
אֲתָא לְקַמֵּיהּ דְּרַבִּי יוֹחָנָן, אֲמַר לֵיהּ: אַדְּמִקְטוֹרָךְ עֲלָךְ זִיל הֲדַר בֶּצֶר, לָאו הַיְינוּ בׇּצְרָה, וּמַיִם שֶׁל רַבִּים אֵין נֶאֱסָרִין.
Reish Lakish came before Rabbi Yoḥanan and told him about the incident. Rabbi Yoḥanan said to Reish Lakish: While your coat [addemiktorakh] is still on you, go and retract your rulings. This is because the town of Bezer which is mentioned among the cities of refuge (Deuteronomy 4:43) is not the same as Bozrah. Bozrah is not part of Eretz Yisrael, and one is not obligated to separate tithes from its produce. The water is also permitted as it is water that belongs to the public, and water that belongs to the public is not rendered prohibited.
רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן לְטַעְמֵיהּ,
The Gemara notes that Rabbi Yoḥanan conforms to his standard line of reasoning,
